HPR Demo at an Airshow

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Layne Pelechytik
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HPR Demo at an Airshow

Postby Layne Pelechytik » Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:24 pm

Have any individuals ever done any high-power rocketry demonstrations at local airshows? I think some really shock and awe demos would do wonders at promoting our favorite hobby, plus be excellent advertising for CAR--- particularly for recruitment purposes. Your thoughts?
Regards,

Layne C. Pelechytik

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Bruce Aleman
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Airshows

Postby Bruce Aleman » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:57 pm

Hey Layne

The Lethbridge rocketry association has done it. I might be more correct by saying Alberta rocketeers did it at the Lethbridge Airshow...we had a mix of clubs participating. The display booth was pretty good advertising. The show portion worked pretty well from the spectators point of view. From our point of view it was pretty difficult. We had to have stuff on the pads and ready very early (can't be under performers in the airshow box). We had a very tight time limit for launching (bad igniter meant no flight). And we couldn't go retrieve until after the show.

The air boss/insurance people were very adamant that no flight or recovery could even come near the crowd so we launched at quite a distance and at non-optimal angles.

The shock and awe would probably be easier to achieve now. The biggest motor we flew there was a K, all Aerotech at the time. Especially effects motors like sparkies now could be really helpful :)

I can't remember when we did it, I'd say 10 years or so by now. I was a teenager kinda helping out, so I'll let the experienced fliers there add comments or correct this version :)
Bruce Aleman
CAR/TRA
L3/L2

Tim Rempel
Alberta Representative
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Postby Tim Rempel » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:15 pm

Wow, time flies. When Bruce said 10 years I thought no way it was that long ago, but it has to be at least that long. I feel old.

It was definitely fun, but I do remember a bunch of stress. Stress of making sure that we didn't make fools of ourselves in front of 20,000 people. Stress of making sure we didn't pile a rocket into the crowd of 20,000 people. And the stress of making sure we didn't pile a rocket into the Snowbirds (or any other parked plane).

Definitely takes alot of planning and forethought. Insurance would also be an issue. I don't think our current CAR-ACF insurance would cover that.

Tim

Ron Veale
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Postby Ron Veale » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:44 pm

Was at that show...2001 comes to mind.

At the time was into mid power, and knew no more than Gs. Walked up to the rocket tent and chatted a bit with WayneG. Walked away going "there's high power?". Watched the rockets fly then hooked up with the CRA.

At the time, had little understanding of the risk involved. Now I do.

Layne Pelechytik
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Lacombe, AB, Canada

Postby Layne Pelechytik » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:46 am

Tim,

Would CAR insurance even need to be used for an airshow? Would not the airshow insurance coverage cover everything flying at the event, including HPR rocketry?
Regards,



Layne C. Pelechytik

Layne Pelechytik
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:00 pm
Location: Lacombe, AB, Canada

Postby Layne Pelechytik » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:49 am

Bruce,

I agree, today's motor selection for color, effects, sound, fire and smoke would make for an incredible, nay AWESOME, demonstration!
Regards,



Layne C. Pelechytik

Greg Dietlein
President
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Postby Greg Dietlein » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:09 pm

The first thing you need is to contact the CAR-ACF president. A CAR-ACF RSO will be required.

All the points being raised here should be put to the president and an RSO.

I suggest contacting Pierre.

Kevin Drayson
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Postby Kevin Drayson » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:28 pm

Also bear in mind, those events occurred in a different era, in a much less "paranoid" environment. 911 had not happened, several spectacular airshow accidents had not yet occurred.

Awesome display? No question. I wonder if the perceived risk might outweigh the organizers' appetite for it though. Of course, the worst they could do is say "no", in which case a static display may be an option.

As Greg said, you'd need to get CAR-ACF on board.

Greg Dietlein
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Postby Greg Dietlein » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:11 pm

I spoke to Pierre today and here is the CAR-ACF position.

The CAR-ACF does not participate in this type of event. CAR certification may not be used as it is contingent on it being a CAR-ACF authorized event. The liability is simply too great. Any participation can only be outside of the CAR-ACF.

By law:

There must be a qualified RSO overseeing the launch. Be advised that air show RSOs do not meet the TC standard for high power rocketry. Totally different training.

CAR-ACF certification and insurance (needed to use the motor) would not apply as any event requires a CAR-ACF RSO but does not have a CAR-ACF RSO.

This is not the first time this has been proposed. I personally know of 2 times it was done where things went wrong specifically because the event RSO did not understand the behavior of rockets. The most serious one damaged a plane. I was there and witnessed it. Very scary moment.

I can go on and on but I can say that the CAR-ACF does not support or endorse this. Just too risky.

If anyone wishes to discuss this further, I suggest speaking to Pierre, our president.

Greg Dietlein
CAR-ACF vice president.

Layne Pelechytik
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Postby Layne Pelechytik » Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:48 pm

That's unfortunate; however I can certainly understand CAR's position. At least with our own (as in CAR's) launches, the entire launch operations are under our control and jurisdiction, and we're completely covered insurance-wise---which is all to our greater benefit for the hobby. :D
Regards,



Layne C. Pelechytik

Greg Dietlein
President
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Location: BC

Postby Greg Dietlein » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:21 pm

Glad you understand Layne. The average flier is unaware of how precarious our hobby is from a regulatory point of view. Managing it in a cautious manner has brought massive benefits to us. There is no doubt in the view of the powers that be that this is the best way to proceed.

BTW We are the CAR-ACF. In rocketry, the CAR is the "Canadian Aviation Regulations".


:)

Greg D


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